70-216 Why is this exam so hard?

[Jaxxon]

I have been studying for the last 3 months for this exam, and I still run into stuff in practice tests that I don't know. I took this exam over a year ago, and I still cannot bring myself to schedule it yet. I want to be absolutley sure that I know my stuff before I schedule.

I'm almost ready....I have used Sybex, QUE, Exam Cram, MS Press, TechNet, you name it, I've read it. Although, there is a grey area for me on this test, it has to do with NAT. I know NAT inside and out, but the way Microsoft wants you to implement it is kinda weird. All of my exam books state that you MUST have a dial-up connection to an ISP to implemnet it. But you CAN use a dedicated connection with it (I've tried) and it works just fine. So, all of my practice test questions pertain to a "dial-up" connection, but none give a scenario where you could implement it in a dedicated connection configuration. Why?

I really don't remember if I saw this on my last attempt (over a year ago), since I have been so upset after months of prep work then fail.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

I hope I pass this time so I can get this exam behind me. :nervous:

Jaxxon

[Freddy Freeloader]

I'm almost ready....I have used Sybex, QUE, Exam Cram, MS Press, TechNet, you name it, I've read it. Although, there is a grey area for me on this test, it has to do with NAT. I know NAT inside and out, but the way Microsoft wants you to implement it is kinda weird. All of my exam books state that you MUST have a dial-up connection to an ISP to implemnet it. But you CAN use a dedicated connection with it (I've tried) and it works just fine. So, all of my practice test questions pertain to a "dial-up" connection, but none give a scenario where you could implement it in a dedicated connection configuration. Why?

LOL. The answer is spelled M I C R O S O F T. Hey, there are a lot of people besides you that have failed this particular test. I've read on some of the newsgroups where people have failed this on multiple times so don't feel all alone on this one. I think that this is one of the hardest MCSE tests they have. It covers a ton of material. But then, so does administering a network. I know I sweated it when I was preparing for it.

I had spent close to 6 months doing all the of things required on this test on my home lab before I ever started to study for an MCSE. I just did them learning my way around Win 2K Server because I was curious about it. I'd just figure out how to work everything that I'd run across. I spent a lot of hours in the KB and the Win2K Server Resource Kit. :D:

I think one thing that really has helped me in all of this is that I've always gone and studied the basics first on all of this stuff. I have a huge library of books that cover the issues as generically as possible. Once I had studied these and done a lot of Googling to learn the fundamentals I started learning the "Microsoft way" of doing things. It has helped me immensely because many times Microsoft doesn't tell you why they do things. They just do them.

I have had to give up on asking the why's on the type of question you asked though. If you knew me you'd know just how out of character it is for me to walk away without an answer to something, and you'd know how frustrated it made me that I could never figure out the answer to the WHY that you just asked. I finally just gave up and said, "that's just Microsoft".

I, personally, can give you no better answer than that. I've never seen anyone else give a better answer either. If there is someone out there who does know I wish they would speak up too. It still nags at me sometimes too. I've just come to the place where I'll just write things off to "that's the Microsoft way" and let it go at that because I've learned I just can't find the answers in the resources I have available to me. Maybe if I could talk to the principals involved I could get answers, but that's a big if that I doubt will ever happen. I doubt very much whether I'll ever speak to Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer, or, more importantly, the ones that actually did the work.

[Jaxxon]

I agree with you and I think I will take that approach as well. I have been administering Microsoft networks for 8+ years now, and this is the first exam that I have had "problems" with. I guess I will just have to accept their form of an answer (for now) :confused:

Like you, I have a huge library of books (about 3 bookshelves), and the resource kit books are the ones I always turn to as well. Just don't try to read it from cover to cover :D:

Thanks for the encouragement Freddy.

Jaxxon

[QOD]

i think 1 out of 3 fail this test.

[tapanshah]

My dear fiend , give your exams after reading from tesking !!!!
I am sure u will find it very very very very useful, as it is the most reliable & the most effective question & sloutions provider!!
Try TESTKING !! web address {url address removed}
If u have got any dought u can mail on { email address removed} See ya

[BosonMichael]

Use Tapanshah's method... if you want to cheat. That site is a known braindump. Sure, you'll be able to answer 60 memorized questions correctly... but you won't understand the concepts at all, and you'll get smoked in an interview or when doing the actual job. It's pretty easy to discover whether someone is a paper/dump MCSE or not just by watching them do their job.

Hope this helps. :)

[snoopy51]

Testking is definitely a braindump site. This is not the way to prepare for the exam. You are essentially cheating on the test by memorized the questions with some answers. Can you pass the test that way, yes! Do you know the material and concept, no! You want to earn your certification not cheating on your exam. Can you tell your boss that you got your certification because you cheated. We have a policy of no braindump in our site! You can read Mary Robinson's article on The Ethics of Braindumping :

http://www.mcseworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12570

Exam 70-216 is the only exam where I have to rush to finish within the allocated time! It has too many network diagrams and you must analyze the diagrams correctly to extract the info. It is a hard exam. Many of us failed this one. It is nothing to be ashame of. If you cheated on your exam, it is shame on you, Tapanshah!

Here are some tek-tips user's comment on testking:
http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?spid=879&newpid=879&sqid=612260

knuffi (TechnicalUser) Jul 24, 2003
Hi, iam learning for the CCEA, i bought 1 exam from Testking for 60 $ and got :

1 Question with a missing answer
3 Questions with wrong answers
4 Questions come twice

and the rest was b...

now i am learning from the *.pdf-downloads from the products page from citrix.

My tip - dont pay for this bad quality !!!
---------------------------------------------------------------
GazzaK (MIS) Jul 25, 2003
Hi knuffi,

i am also busy doing my CCEA. #941 this Monday and # 961 next.

Dont bother buying any "Braindump" Questions from any sites.
Someone gave me a testking and i used it to practice ONLY. and i found 10 questions that were wrong, dont expect to find any of those questions in the exam either,

Use the Administrator and Getting Started PDF guides and know the where to find each option for each program.

Have you got the official courseware? Its very helpful!

Learning the courseware and PDF's and knowning the program options will be more than enough to pass

[The_Geek]

It's pretty easy to discover whether someone is a paper/dump MCSE or not just by watching them do their job.

What about those who are changing careers? Would you consider those who achieve their certs "legally" to be "real" or "paper" MCSE/MCSA's? I have a good friend of mine who lost his textile job (thanks Ross for NAFTA), so he decided to go into conputers. He's got his A+, Net+, MCP, and MCSA on W2K. He's gone on a few job interviews where he told them UP FRONT that he had no pratical experience, only book knowledge. He's been accused twice of being a cheater. So he's been labeled "paper MCSA" or anything related and the only things he's used are the Mike Meyers books, Transender, Self Test, and the MOC books.

Personally, I would rather hire someone without hands-on experience who got their certs without cheating. At least they have the concepts down, and can learn the rest.

[snoopy51]

Personally, I would rather hire someone without hands-on experience who got their certs without cheating. At least they have the concepts down, and can learn the rest.

This is the whole problem beside the ethical issue is to get the concepts down! If you use braindump, you just memorized the answer without understanding the concept! In real situation, you must think on you own without answer a, b, c and d. Many time in troubleshooting situation, you have to create your own answer a, b, c and d, then eliminated them one by one by testings or observations or reasoning. Braindumper can not do that because they don't have the concepts down!

Prior working experience is a different issue!

[Freddy Freeloader]

What about those who are changing careers? Would you consider those who achieve their certs "legally" to be "real" or "paper" MCSE/MCSA's? I have a good friend of mine who lost his textile job (thanks Ross for NAFTA), so he decided to go into conputers. He's got his A+, Net+, MCP, and MCSA on W2K. He's gone on a few job interviews where he told them UP FRONT that he had no pratical experience, only book knowledge. He's been accused twice of being a cheater. So he's been labeled "paper MCSA" or anything related and the only things he's used are the Mike Meyers books, Transender, Self Test, and the MOC books.

Interesting question. A "paper MCSA" can be someone, regardless of whether they braindumped or studied using legal sources, received a certification and still hasn't done any hands-on work with the products for which they are certified. I still, after spending 2 years working on certifications, having worked for a year for a web site doing server and database maintanence, and having a home lab set up to work through everything I run across in the testing process, still consider my certifications to be somewhat of the "paper" variety because I don't have verifiable professional experience(work for pay) in all the areas for which I'm certified. As I'm having a hard time finding a job, I imagine most employers look at it the same way, unfortunately for me.

A "cheater" or "braindumper" is someone who hasn't even studied the concepts to learn. All they have done is learned the correct answers to specific questions. Unfortunately there are so many of these unethical people out there that even those who legitimately study the content get smeared with the same brush because of the past experience employers have had in hiring MCSE's that don't have experience.

I'll also say this: Even someone who has legitimately studied the concepts but hasn't worked with the product in any fashion will have a very steep learning curve when it comes to the "real world" of working as a professional IT person. Not having ever had any hands-on experience will make them very slow at some pretty basic things. They will spend a few months just learning their way around a GUI in AD. This is a very expensive project for an employer to take on. And in this job market, why should they? There are literally thousands of people out there without jobs who have quite a bit of experience. Unfortunately your buddy, along with quite a few other of us, is at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to finding a job in IT. I feel for him, but he is one of thousands who have responded to all the crap in the media about how hot the IT job market is. It isn't. It's one of the toughest job markets there is for a newbie to break into.

[fortch]

Ah-ha! Now here's a topic I can sink my teeth into! I, too, hold an MCSA certification, garnered through 3 months of intense study and practice on a home lab. Am I a paper MCSA? Technically, yes, and I'm not afraid to admit it. Is it a big gamble for an employer to take on a 34-year old career changer, without a lick of production experience? Heck yes. However, I do have a little practical experience in my lab, and a decade+ of building PC's for anyone that's asked. I participate in troubleshooting forums, and constantly read the solutions of others. This, in and of itself, is a boon to experience, but not ideal for a Sysadmin job at a company. Although resumes are flying out of my butt quicker than you can say 'Sam Adams', most are for helpdesk positions, and not for admin work. I WILL NOT embellish my experience to get employed, and refuse to braindump my way into a job I've no business taking, especially when other qualified people are applying also.

Stupid? Some may think so, and I doubt the validity of their work ethic. You see, I've come from a business that's all about experience. We had our certifications, also, called ASE (Automotive Service Excellence), that quite a few non-working auto journalists held. I was foreman in a large dealership, and saw many techs come and go, some with the ASE Master labels, some without. The worthiness of any employee is largely based on their performance on the job, overseen and reviewed by a qualified supervisor. This is the trickle down effect -- An unqualified supervisor normally results in an unqualified, non-cohesive staff that is largely ineffective. That's what makes the supervisor, not the HR department, the cultivator. Poor middle management, especially in the IT field, are especially to blame for paper MCSEs. The ethical ramifications aside, an employer should be in a position to accurately supervise and analyze their charge; if this were to happen more often, then there would be less people on the job, without a clue.

In my previous career, I was knowledgeable and efficient, but not too much in either direction. I fully understood the theory, and built on top of that with repetition and experience. Throw in a teaching disposition, and I was a fair and honest boss (not everyone saw that, though). What separated me from others was knowing what I needed to know, and what I didn't need to know, and could reference later. This is the meat and potatoes of learning in a 'hands-on' production environment, and I was able to determine effectiveness in my techs by this method. One guy could recite horsepower figures from 5 decades of Vette motors, or the 0-60 times of everything in Car and Driver, but couldn't tell me the torque specs to a 45RFE valve body, or the lateral runout limit of a front brake rotor. Trust me, that's a no-no, and while the guy was an ASE master, and sounded good to boot, he was not efficient, and thus, not a good member of the team. An HR dream, to be sure, but no good in a production environment, which is my main point. There's gonna be 'paper' people in all work situations, ethical or unethical, but it boils down to a discernible eye for the industry.

For myself, I'll keep pluggin' away (right Freddy?), and I'll get my shot soon. Whether its a junior admin or a helpdesk position, I'll be upfront and honest. I'll probably get waffled by a few poor managers that have little to no clue, but that's OK. I started as a porter in my previous career, and ended as the boss, while doing every job in between. Perhaps I'll do the same in IT, I dunno. What I won't do is accept a job that I know I can't fill, which although M$ labeled me an MCSA, I know I've no right to that position. Maybe a right to the title, just not the job, not yet. Honesty, integrity, and experience molds the professional, not a good score on a test, regardless of what anyone says. Peace!

[Ztech]

fortch,

I frequent several discussion boards, and I must say, that is the best post in the debate over "paper" certs that I have had the pleasure to read. I have been in the IT field for several years and worked under several different management styles. IMO you have cut through all the BS and really disected the heart of the matter. I also got my start on the helpdesk and eventually moved to desktop support, from there I looked for opportunities to help out the Sys Admins with projects they had. While working with them I was able to build up thier trust in me, and the longer I worked with them the more task they would let me help with. Then when a position came open I was the first one they wanted to fill the position. Not so much because I had all the skills necessary, but because they knew that I was a hard worker, willing to learn, and was a good fit with thier team. So you keep pluggin and you will get your opportunity. The first manager that is smart enough to hire you will soon realize that he has found the proverbial "diamond in the rough". It is obvious that you knew exactly what you were in for by making this career change. So keep at it, cause you have yourself perfectly positioned to take advantage once the opportunity presents itself.

A little something my dad always told me:

"Prepare well and you will not be suprised, opportunity is around every corner, the real question is whether or not you have prepared yourself to be ready to turn the corner."

Yeah, I know, kinda cheesy, but the more I go through life, the more I realize how true this statement is.

Z

[fortch]

Z, not to polish this thread so it shines like a spankin' new penny, but I kinda figured you to have a solid work ethic. From your encouraging posts to your well-thought answers, its obvious that you've worked hard and learned hard, and not necessarily in that order. Helping others is a quality that's hard to come by, yet this site seems to have several (you know who you are) who maintain their patience, drill to the question, and answer without 'talking down' to others. Rare indeed, especially in a technical field where most are greedy about knowledge, or too haughty to listen, and just spew answers to hear their own heads' rattle.

BTW, your father is a wise man. There's alot of miles on that statement.

[snoopy51]

Fortch:

I copied and pasted the corner quote into "My Document" called words of wisdom. The corner will never escape from my brain now, deeply embedded and hard to remove. The source is known as "Ztech's Dad".

snoopy

[BosonMichael]

What about those who are changing careers? Would you consider those who achieve their certs "legally" to be "real" or "paper" MCSE/MCSA's? I have a good friend of mine who lost his textile job (thanks Ross for NAFTA), so he decided to go into conputers. He's got his A+, Net+, MCP, and MCSA on W2K. He's gone on a few job interviews where he told them UP FRONT that he had no pratical experience, only book knowledge. He's been accused twice of being a cheater. So he's been labeled "paper MCSA" or anything related and the only things he's used are the Mike Meyers books, Transender, Self Test, and the MOC books.

Personally, I would rather hire someone without hands-on experience who got their certs without cheating. At least they have the concepts down, and can learn the rest.

A braindumper will usually NOT have learned the concepts. A newbie MAY have learned the concepts. Totally different. I further qualify my previous statement: I can usually tell a plain-old-newbie from a cheating braindumper.

If your friend had only book knowledge, he should have at least installed the beta software and practiced what he has learned. If he's done that, then great - at least he's got SOME hands-on experience. That's better than nothing. But if he hasn't, then perhaps that's why he's getting labelled as "paper" (as others have also related). And there is no excuse for "not enough time". No one has enough time. Not you, not me, not your friend. You make time to do either what you want to do or what you must do. Those that have those priorities in the right order will usually rise to the top.

Forgive me if I sound preachy - I don't mean to, at all. I only mean to pass on the experiences that I have had and have seen others have. And the replies above mine have some good wisdom in them - better than what I have posted, in any case. ;)

Hope this helps. :)

[BosonMichael]

Thought I'd post a follow-up: good posts, all... Freddy, Snoopy, Fortch, Z. Mind if I use your words at some point in the future when I give my next Certification 101 presentation? I'd greatly appreciate it. Fortch, your post particularly moved me. You're on the right track, trust me. But... you already knew that, didn't you? ;)

Honesty and integrity counts for a LOT. Like I implied earlier, I'd much rather hire a newbie who says that he or she has only book knowledge than hire a cheater. After all, if someone is too lazy to study (the right way) for a test, then they're probably too lazy to do their job correctly. The one who studies diligently to learn the concepts is probably going to be the first one you can count on to come in and help out when the server has gone down or the e-mail system is spitting out virused messages at 3:15 in the morning.

The_Geek, tell your friend to keep his head up high - he's doing things the right way: honestly. :) All he needs is some trial Windows Server 2003 software and a PC, and then he can get a little hands-on experience, even though he doesn't have any "real life" experience. We were all there, once. All of us.

[Jaxxon]

wow,

I didn't know this post would spark such a braindump debate, but that's cool. I have been implementing and administering Microsoft networks for about 10 years now, and I have seen it all. I know of the people that you refer to as "paper mcse's", and I must say you can spot them a mile away!

They are the ones sitting at the console saying such things as "It's supposed to work this way!!!!", or "I've never seen this before!!!" Braindumping is just wrong.....I have put so much work into my studies that I despise people that memorize questions. I believe that this is how MCSE's got a bad name, but we are slowly regaining recognition in the IT industry. I worked with CCIE's; Master CNE's that would constantly try to belittle me because I was the Microsoft guy (and by the way, they would always type: Micro$oft in their e-mails) but that's another story.

Back to my original question about this exam (70-216), I thought that Microsoft was going for a more "real world" exam format, but I think that way too many people were involved in the development of this exam to make it a reality.

Jaxxon

[Ztech]

TranscenderMichael--Feel free to use whatever you like in my posts, I wouldn't have put it up otherwise. ;)

Jaxxon,

Microsoft is going for a more real world feel in thier exams, but I didn't see this start to happen well after I took 216. The 2003 exams, IMO are where they really shifted gears in this area. I would agree that this exam is heavy on theory, no so much on practicality. I think that MS overall is only doing slight adjustments to the 2000 exams and are focusing more on the 2003 offerings. So basically just like there are 5 different ways to get to control panel, make sure you know which way MS does it. I know this is probably not a very good answer but this is all I can recommend.

Z

[BosonMichael]

TranscenderMichael--Feel free to use whatever you like in my posts, I wouldn't have put it up otherwise. ;)

Thanks, Z. 'Preciate it. ;)

[supag33k]

Keep at it Jaxxon,

BTW, some test centres offer non kosher material as well.

I had a situation where I knocked back a cheaper course with this issue in preference to a bona fide course and I got stamped as a paper cert in our small industry here because I had self paced studied for a lot of my NT 4 courses.

This is despite having considerable IT and telecommunications skills from elsewhere - go figure??!! :cry:

Apparently this is a coomon behaviour for one particular centre over here and no-one deals with them as a result....

As per my other post today, just focus and go for it!!

supa
:grin:

[fortch]

T-Mike -- Use whatever you want, my fingers are done with those anyways ;)

Jaxxon -- I'm with ya, and we're gonna rip this Beast a new one!

Snoop -- We must share a brain, because I've got a folder floating around one of these boxes chock full of (copy and pasted) witty anecdotes and wise proverbs. If only I knew where.....

[BosonMichael]

T-Mike -- Use whatever you want, my fingers are done with those anyways ;)

Thanks muchly, Fortch! :)